Episode 17 - How To Stay Human When Tech Enters the Room
May 15, 2026
About This Episode
What if nurses could spend less time charting and more time connecting with patients? At Northwestern Medicine, nurse leaders Sarah Richmond, MSN, RN, NEA-BC, and Karen Mahnke, MSN, RN, NEA-BC, have been piloting ambient listening technology that generates documentation from natural conversations with patients at the bedside. In this episode, they share how nurses are helping to shape this technology and why the future of AI in healthcare may be more human than many expect.
“The goal of technology is to make your life easier. So, you have to be willing to push back a little bit, and hopefully there will be enhancements that end up helping your workflow.”
Sarah Richmond, MSN, RN, NEA-BC
Patient Care Manager, Northwestern Memorial Hospital
“Nursing is a caring profession and there's so much more to it than checking the boxes. I would encourage everybody to not be afraid of [technology] but to use it in a way that it enhances your practice.”
Karen Mahnke, MSN, RN, NEA-BC
Bernthal Family Chief Nurse Executive, Vice President, Operations, Northwestern Medicine Catherine Gratz Griffin Lake Forest Hospital
Show Notes
Episode Guests
Sarah Richmond, MSN, RN, NEA-BC
Patient Care Manager, Northwestern Memorial Hospital
Karen Mahnke, MSN, RN, NEA-BC
Bernthal Family Chief Nurse Executive, Vice President, Operations, Northwestern Medicine Catherine Gratz Griffin Lake Forest Hospital
What if nurses could spend less time charting and more time connecting with patients? At Northwestern Medicine, nurse leaders Sarah Richmond, MSN, RN, NEA-BC, and Karen Mahnke, MSN, RN, NEA-BC, have been piloting ambient listening technology that generates documentation from natural conversations with patients at the bedside. In this episode, they share how nurses are helping to shape this technology and why the future of AI in healthcare may be more human than many expect.
“The goal of technology is to make your life easier. So, you have to be willing to push back a little bit, and hopefully there will be enhancements that end up helping your workflow.”
Sarah Richmond, MSN, RN, NEA-BC
Patient Care Manager, Northwestern Memorial Hospital
“Nursing is a caring profession and there's so much more to it than checking the boxes. I would encourage everybody to not be afraid of [technology] but to use it in a way that it enhances your practice.”
Karen Mahnke, MSN, RN, NEA-BC
Bernthal Family Chief Nurse Executive, Vice President, Operations, Northwestern Medicine Catherine Gratz Griffin Lake Forest Hospital
Show Notes
- Richmond and Mahnke describe the Northwestern Medicine pilot of ambient listening technology. The tool allows nurses to document care during conversations with patients instead of manually entering information after leaving the room.
- The technology captures information from bedside conversations and places it directly into electronic health record flowsheets. Nurses can document pain assessments, meal intake and other routine observations while continuing normal patient interactions.
- One surprising finding was that many experienced nurses adapted quickly to the technology. Compared with newer nurses, seasoned nurses were often more comfortable narrating their care and talking through assessments with patients.
- The pilot highlighted nursing work that is often unseen. Richmond shares an example where a nurse's emotional support of a patient was recognized and documented, helping capture an important aspect of nursing care.
- The guests say nurses have the power to help shape the future of healthcare technology. They say that technology should support relationship-based care and be developed with input from the nurses who use it.
Episode Guests
Sarah Richmond, MSN, RN, NEA-BC
Patient Care Manager, Northwestern Memorial Hospital
Karen Mahnke, MSN, RN, NEA-BC
Bernthal Family Chief Nurse Executive, Vice President, Operations, Northwestern Medicine Catherine Gratz Griffin Lake Forest Hospital
transcript
[00:00:01] Alyssa Saklak: I'm Alyssa Saklak.
[00:00:02] Laurin Henderson: And I'm Laurin Henderson.
[00:00:03] Alyssa Saklak: On Better, RN, we get real about nursing,
[00:00:06] Laurin Henderson: the good and the gritty.
[00:00:08] Alyssa Saklak: We talk to real healthcare experts
[00:00:10] Laurin Henderson: with the goal of becoming better --
[00:00:12] Alyssa Saklak: for our patients, our colleagues,
[00:00:14] Laurin Henderson: our families, our friends,
[00:00:16] Alyssa Saklak: our partners and ourselves.
[00:00:19] Laurin Henderson: Hi, Alyssa.
[00:00:20] Alyssa Saklak: Hi, Laurin.
[00:00:22] Laurin Henderson: Today, we're talking about all things technology, AI and ambient listening, and some really great work going on at Northwestern Medicine. You're an early adopter in the AI tech space; I could take some notes from you.
[00:00:36] Alyssa Saklak: I love technology. I think it's because I grew up playing video games, so I love a new app or platform, and I dive right in.
[00:00:47] Laurin Henderson: You are such a human connection person, deeply to your core, but you gracefully balance technology and AI to help with your day-to-day while still being deeply connected to the people around you, which can be really hard. I struggle with looking up from a screen, but you do it perfectly.
[00:01:17] Alyssa Saklak: I'll give you a compliment right back — this is turning into a compliment session! You are grounded in your core and how we add technology to care. I'm excited to hear your take on AI; what are the concerns, and how do we balance them? Everyone's talking about it.
[00:01:40] Laurin Henderson: In the healthcare space, we're on the cusp of this boom. We're not at the bedside anymore, but we're close. How do we integrate these new practices? We’re talking today about how nurses stay human in a digital world and how to keep personal connection and clinical judgment at the forefront. Joining us are two nurse leaders from Northwestern Medicine. Sarah Richmond is a patient care manager at Northwestern Memorial Hospital with over 10 years of experience in leadership. Karen Mahnke is the Bernthal Family Chief Nurse Executive and VP of Operations at Northwestern Medicine Catherine Gratz Griffin Lake Forest Hospital. She's an expert in patient safety and clinical operations and has a background as a wound ostomy nurse. They both recently spoke at the American Organization for Nursing Leadership (AONL) conference about how ambient tech is changing the profession.
[00:02:51] Alyssa Saklak: Karen and Sarah, welcome to the show.
[00:02:52] Karen Mahnke: Thank you, and we're very excited to be here.
[00:02:55] Laurin Henderson: Tell us about your work together and the technology we're discussing today.
[00:03:07] Karen Mahnke: Sarah and I were working on parallel tracks. When working with nursing and AI, you need a wide swath of perspectives. I'm the chief nurse for AI at Northwestern Medicine Lake Forest Hospital, whereas Sarah's at the downtown campus. We started working together to prepare our presentation for the AONL, which we gave in April.
[00:03:36] Sarah Richmond: Karen and I both oversee units deemed "Hospital of the Future" units at Northwestern Medicine. Because of that, we were able to adopt and pilot this ambient listening project, and our staff took ownership of it.
[00:03:58] Laurin Henderson: What does ambient listening mean, and what did that look like on your unit?
[00:04:04] Sarah Richmond: I describe it as voice-to-text. It's similar to dictation on your phone. You bring the phone into the room, press record and have a natural conversation with your patient — do your assessment, take vitals and ask about their day. It picks up the words, but the beauty is that instead of just creating a note, it flows directly into the flow sheets in Epic. It charts routine tasks — pain levels, meal intake — so it eliminates extra charting burden after you leave the room.
[00:05:22] Laurin Henderson: That's fascinating.
[00:05:23] Alyssa Saklak: I imagine it requires nurses to narrate their care, which might not be comfortable. What were the biggest observations?
[00:05:42] Karen Mahnke: I assumed younger nurses would be more comfortable, but I was surprised that our seasoned nurses adapted better because they were already comfortable narrating their care and talking through assessments. There was a learning curve for everyone to understand what it meant to narrate their care.
[00:06:28] Alyssa Saklak: That's interesting. I can see why newer nurses might hesitate. Sarah's unit used it downtown; Karen, where was your location?
[00:06:53] Karen Mahnke: Yes, we have two 12-bed observation units, and we piloted this technology in those units.
[00:06:59] Laurin Henderson: In either of these pilots, did you all get any feedback from patients? Did it impact the patient experience at all?
[00:07:06] Sarah Richmond: Patients didn't notice much because it's subtle. We tell nurses to be normal — "care out loud." You do your assessment, but you say things aloud so the documentation picks it up. You don't sound robotic; you sound natural. After practice, it becomes part of the normal conversation.
[00:08:20] Karen Mahnke: Right. Nurses don't hold the phone up to their mouth; they put it in their lab coat pocket. It's not intrusive.
[00:08:32] Laurin Henderson: That's the hope — that technology fits into the existing workflow. It sounds like a value add that saves time.
[00:09:15] Karen Mahnke: It definitely saves time, but it also increases effectiveness. It forces nurses to have those conversations with patients, which enhances the relationship.
[00:09:52] Alyssa Saklak: Does it capture education provided to the patient?
[00:10:03] Sarah Richmond: It captures education, but one interesting find was a nurse spending time with a patient regarding emotional aspects of care. The tool ended up charting it as "spiritual care." The nurse felt validated, realizing the "unseen" emotional work she was doing was being captured and credited.
[00:10:58] Laurin Henderson: That’s a great response to those worried that technology will replace them — it gives you credit for work that often goes unrecognized.
[00:11:19] Karen Mahnke: Companies are realizing nursing care is more complex than physician dictation. We’re at the infancy stage.
[00:11:33] Laurin Henderson: When you started, what felt revolutionary? For me, it was the beds that turned patients to help you move them.
[00:12:15] Karen Mahnke: I'm an old wound care nurse, so for me, it was the Clinitron® bed with the sand. It made me realize how technology can improve patient care.
[00:12:33] Sarah Richmond: For me, it was the DinaMap sending info directly to Epic. Wheeling that clunky machine around, wiping it down and then manually inputting vitals — it was a game changer.
[00:13:03] Laurin Henderson: Alyssa, do you have anything that comes to mind?
[00:13:06] Alyssa Saklak: I recall the implementation of external urinary collection devices. It was a game changer. It showed me how Northwestern Medicine values having the right tools.
[00:13:47] Karen Mahnke: That emphasizes the importance of changes starting from the ground up, not top down.
[00:14:01] Sarah Richmond: We worked hard to ensure nurses had a voice. The technology wasn't perfect, so we gathered feedback, brought it to the vendor and made changes. This built trust in both the product and our leadership.
[00:15:17] Laurin Henderson: That’s huge for change management.
[00:15:36] Karen Mahnke: You have to walk before you can run. We had to be clear about the purpose: not just to implement tech, but to fine-tune it to enhance nursing practice.
[00:16:58] Sarah Richmond: We also focused on the "why." If a nurse had issues, we asked why and how we could fix it for them.
[00:17:45] Karen Mahnke: Practice makes perfect. We encouraged repeated use so it became a standard of practice.
[00:18:02] Alyssa Saklak: What was the reaction at AONL when you presented?
[00:18:16] Karen Mahnke: There was so much interest. People were impressed and intrigued by the demonstration video.
[00:18:40] Sarah Richmond: Many asked what's next — can it pick up education? Can other professions use it?
[00:19:34] Laurin Henderson: What is your dream for the future of this project?
[00:19:36] Karen Mahnke: My dream is for nursing to be the decision-makers on how technology impacts our practice.
[00:20:16] Sarah Richmond: I agree. My vision is that nurses have a say in technology from the start, ensuring it's something they want to utilize, not something they have to utilize.
[00:21:06] Karen Mahnke: Our practice model is based on relationship-based care. We always have to keep in mind how tech positively impacts the relationship between the nurse and the patient.
[00:21:30] Alyssa Saklak: Any closing thoughts?
[00:21:52] Sarah Richmond: Technology isn't going anywhere, so embrace it. But don't just go along with it — provide feedback, ask questions and talk to your leadership and vendors. They want to make the best product, and that comes from the end user.
[00:22:46] Karen Mahnke: It's about efficiency balanced with effectiveness. Don't be afraid of it; use it to enhance your practice.
[00:23:06] Alyssa Saklak: Perfect closing words. Thank you for your curiosity and for engaging with this environment. Thank you, Sarah and Karen.
[00:23:19] Laurin Henderson: Thanks for shedding light on Northwestern Medicine’s work. We’re lucky to have leaders like you.
[00:23:38] Karen Mahnke: Thank you. Thank you for having us.
[00:23:39] Laurin and Sarah: Thank you for having us.
[00:23:46] Laurin Henderson: Thank you for listening. Please follow us wherever you get your podcasts and rate and review the show.
[00:23:51] Alyssa Saklak: We'd love to hear your comments and any topics you might want us to explore.
[00:00:02] Laurin Henderson: And I'm Laurin Henderson.
[00:00:03] Alyssa Saklak: On Better, RN, we get real about nursing,
[00:00:06] Laurin Henderson: the good and the gritty.
[00:00:08] Alyssa Saklak: We talk to real healthcare experts
[00:00:10] Laurin Henderson: with the goal of becoming better --
[00:00:12] Alyssa Saklak: for our patients, our colleagues,
[00:00:14] Laurin Henderson: our families, our friends,
[00:00:16] Alyssa Saklak: our partners and ourselves.
[00:00:19] Laurin Henderson: Hi, Alyssa.
[00:00:20] Alyssa Saklak: Hi, Laurin.
[00:00:22] Laurin Henderson: Today, we're talking about all things technology, AI and ambient listening, and some really great work going on at Northwestern Medicine. You're an early adopter in the AI tech space; I could take some notes from you.
[00:00:36] Alyssa Saklak: I love technology. I think it's because I grew up playing video games, so I love a new app or platform, and I dive right in.
[00:00:47] Laurin Henderson: You are such a human connection person, deeply to your core, but you gracefully balance technology and AI to help with your day-to-day while still being deeply connected to the people around you, which can be really hard. I struggle with looking up from a screen, but you do it perfectly.
[00:01:17] Alyssa Saklak: I'll give you a compliment right back — this is turning into a compliment session! You are grounded in your core and how we add technology to care. I'm excited to hear your take on AI; what are the concerns, and how do we balance them? Everyone's talking about it.
[00:01:40] Laurin Henderson: In the healthcare space, we're on the cusp of this boom. We're not at the bedside anymore, but we're close. How do we integrate these new practices? We’re talking today about how nurses stay human in a digital world and how to keep personal connection and clinical judgment at the forefront. Joining us are two nurse leaders from Northwestern Medicine. Sarah Richmond is a patient care manager at Northwestern Memorial Hospital with over 10 years of experience in leadership. Karen Mahnke is the Bernthal Family Chief Nurse Executive and VP of Operations at Northwestern Medicine Catherine Gratz Griffin Lake Forest Hospital. She's an expert in patient safety and clinical operations and has a background as a wound ostomy nurse. They both recently spoke at the American Organization for Nursing Leadership (AONL) conference about how ambient tech is changing the profession.
[00:02:51] Alyssa Saklak: Karen and Sarah, welcome to the show.
[00:02:52] Karen Mahnke: Thank you, and we're very excited to be here.
[00:02:55] Laurin Henderson: Tell us about your work together and the technology we're discussing today.
[00:03:07] Karen Mahnke: Sarah and I were working on parallel tracks. When working with nursing and AI, you need a wide swath of perspectives. I'm the chief nurse for AI at Northwestern Medicine Lake Forest Hospital, whereas Sarah's at the downtown campus. We started working together to prepare our presentation for the AONL, which we gave in April.
[00:03:36] Sarah Richmond: Karen and I both oversee units deemed "Hospital of the Future" units at Northwestern Medicine. Because of that, we were able to adopt and pilot this ambient listening project, and our staff took ownership of it.
[00:03:58] Laurin Henderson: What does ambient listening mean, and what did that look like on your unit?
[00:04:04] Sarah Richmond: I describe it as voice-to-text. It's similar to dictation on your phone. You bring the phone into the room, press record and have a natural conversation with your patient — do your assessment, take vitals and ask about their day. It picks up the words, but the beauty is that instead of just creating a note, it flows directly into the flow sheets in Epic. It charts routine tasks — pain levels, meal intake — so it eliminates extra charting burden after you leave the room.
[00:05:22] Laurin Henderson: That's fascinating.
[00:05:23] Alyssa Saklak: I imagine it requires nurses to narrate their care, which might not be comfortable. What were the biggest observations?
[00:05:42] Karen Mahnke: I assumed younger nurses would be more comfortable, but I was surprised that our seasoned nurses adapted better because they were already comfortable narrating their care and talking through assessments. There was a learning curve for everyone to understand what it meant to narrate their care.
[00:06:28] Alyssa Saklak: That's interesting. I can see why newer nurses might hesitate. Sarah's unit used it downtown; Karen, where was your location?
[00:06:53] Karen Mahnke: Yes, we have two 12-bed observation units, and we piloted this technology in those units.
[00:06:59] Laurin Henderson: In either of these pilots, did you all get any feedback from patients? Did it impact the patient experience at all?
[00:07:06] Sarah Richmond: Patients didn't notice much because it's subtle. We tell nurses to be normal — "care out loud." You do your assessment, but you say things aloud so the documentation picks it up. You don't sound robotic; you sound natural. After practice, it becomes part of the normal conversation.
[00:08:20] Karen Mahnke: Right. Nurses don't hold the phone up to their mouth; they put it in their lab coat pocket. It's not intrusive.
[00:08:32] Laurin Henderson: That's the hope — that technology fits into the existing workflow. It sounds like a value add that saves time.
[00:09:15] Karen Mahnke: It definitely saves time, but it also increases effectiveness. It forces nurses to have those conversations with patients, which enhances the relationship.
[00:09:52] Alyssa Saklak: Does it capture education provided to the patient?
[00:10:03] Sarah Richmond: It captures education, but one interesting find was a nurse spending time with a patient regarding emotional aspects of care. The tool ended up charting it as "spiritual care." The nurse felt validated, realizing the "unseen" emotional work she was doing was being captured and credited.
[00:10:58] Laurin Henderson: That’s a great response to those worried that technology will replace them — it gives you credit for work that often goes unrecognized.
[00:11:19] Karen Mahnke: Companies are realizing nursing care is more complex than physician dictation. We’re at the infancy stage.
[00:11:33] Laurin Henderson: When you started, what felt revolutionary? For me, it was the beds that turned patients to help you move them.
[00:12:15] Karen Mahnke: I'm an old wound care nurse, so for me, it was the Clinitron® bed with the sand. It made me realize how technology can improve patient care.
[00:12:33] Sarah Richmond: For me, it was the DinaMap sending info directly to Epic. Wheeling that clunky machine around, wiping it down and then manually inputting vitals — it was a game changer.
[00:13:03] Laurin Henderson: Alyssa, do you have anything that comes to mind?
[00:13:06] Alyssa Saklak: I recall the implementation of external urinary collection devices. It was a game changer. It showed me how Northwestern Medicine values having the right tools.
[00:13:47] Karen Mahnke: That emphasizes the importance of changes starting from the ground up, not top down.
[00:14:01] Sarah Richmond: We worked hard to ensure nurses had a voice. The technology wasn't perfect, so we gathered feedback, brought it to the vendor and made changes. This built trust in both the product and our leadership.
[00:15:17] Laurin Henderson: That’s huge for change management.
[00:15:36] Karen Mahnke: You have to walk before you can run. We had to be clear about the purpose: not just to implement tech, but to fine-tune it to enhance nursing practice.
[00:16:58] Sarah Richmond: We also focused on the "why." If a nurse had issues, we asked why and how we could fix it for them.
[00:17:45] Karen Mahnke: Practice makes perfect. We encouraged repeated use so it became a standard of practice.
[00:18:02] Alyssa Saklak: What was the reaction at AONL when you presented?
[00:18:16] Karen Mahnke: There was so much interest. People were impressed and intrigued by the demonstration video.
[00:18:40] Sarah Richmond: Many asked what's next — can it pick up education? Can other professions use it?
[00:19:34] Laurin Henderson: What is your dream for the future of this project?
[00:19:36] Karen Mahnke: My dream is for nursing to be the decision-makers on how technology impacts our practice.
[00:20:16] Sarah Richmond: I agree. My vision is that nurses have a say in technology from the start, ensuring it's something they want to utilize, not something they have to utilize.
[00:21:06] Karen Mahnke: Our practice model is based on relationship-based care. We always have to keep in mind how tech positively impacts the relationship between the nurse and the patient.
[00:21:30] Alyssa Saklak: Any closing thoughts?
[00:21:52] Sarah Richmond: Technology isn't going anywhere, so embrace it. But don't just go along with it — provide feedback, ask questions and talk to your leadership and vendors. They want to make the best product, and that comes from the end user.
[00:22:46] Karen Mahnke: It's about efficiency balanced with effectiveness. Don't be afraid of it; use it to enhance your practice.
[00:23:06] Alyssa Saklak: Perfect closing words. Thank you for your curiosity and for engaging with this environment. Thank you, Sarah and Karen.
[00:23:19] Laurin Henderson: Thanks for shedding light on Northwestern Medicine’s work. We’re lucky to have leaders like you.
[00:23:38] Karen Mahnke: Thank you. Thank you for having us.
[00:23:39] Laurin and Sarah: Thank you for having us.
[00:23:46] Laurin Henderson: Thank you for listening. Please follow us wherever you get your podcasts and rate and review the show.
[00:23:51] Alyssa Saklak: We'd love to hear your comments and any topics you might want us to explore.