Episode 5 - Discovery, RN
June 6, 2023
About This Episode
Academics and medicine are closely intertwined. But how can learning and research support your well-being? Our hosts chat with Lauren Fogle, BSN, RN, to learn how her quest to learn more about trauma ended up helping her learn more about herself.
The information in this episode is intended to be educational and is not tailored to the investment needs of any specific investor. Please consult a financial advisor or similar professional to explore needs related to your specific finances.
Episode Guests
Lauren Fogle, BSN, RN
Lauren Fogle, BSN, RN, is a nurse in the Neuro-spine Intensive Care Unit at Northwestern Memorial Hospital.
Academics and medicine are closely intertwined. But how can learning and research support your well-being? Our hosts chat with Lauren Fogle, BSN, RN, to learn how her quest to learn more about trauma ended up helping her learn more about herself.
The information in this episode is intended to be educational and is not tailored to the investment needs of any specific investor. Please consult a financial advisor or similar professional to explore needs related to your specific finances.
Episode Guests
Lauren Fogle, BSN, RN
Lauren Fogle, BSN, RN, is a nurse in the Neuro-spine Intensive Care Unit at Northwestern Memorial Hospital.
transcript
Alyssa Saklak [00:00:00] I am Alyssa Saklak.
Laurin Masnari [00:00:06] And I'm Laurin Masnari.
Saklak [00:00:08] On Better, RN, we get real about nursing.
Masnari [00:00:11] The good and the gritty.
Saklak [00:00:12] We talk to real healthcare experts.
Masnari [00:00:15] With the goal of becoming better.
Saklak [00:00:17] For our patients, our colleagues.
Masnari [00:00:18] Our family, our friends.
Saklak [00:00:20] Our partners and ourselves.
Masnari [00:00:25] Hi, Alyssa.
Saklak [00:00:26] Hi, Laurin.
Masnari [00:00:27] Happy podcast day. Very excited for this episode. We are interviewing someone that you know really well, whose name is also Lauren.
Saklak [00:00:33] Absolutely. Lauren Fogle is a nurse in the Neuro-spine Intensive Care Unit at Northwestern Memorial Hospital. She and I crossed paths because she is a nurse scholar doing a research project.
Masnari [00:00:45] Through Northwestern Medicine. Right?
Saklak [00:00:47] Absolutely.
Masnari [00:00:47] Learning never really stops. There's always an opportunity to learn more. So, I'm excited to, to hear from Lauren today.
Saklak [00:00:53] How's school been going for you?
Masnari [00:00:54] It's fine.
Saklak [00:00:55] You love it?
Masnari [00:00:56] How's school for you?
Saklak [00:00:57] Listen.
Masnari [00:00:57] You love it.
Saklak [00:00:58] I do. I'm in my master's for public health, and it has been fueling my nursing brain so much.
Masnari [00:01:03] Don't get me wrong. I love the learning piece, and I think a lot of what I'm learning right now in my master's program is super applicable to what I do in my day to day, but it's hard to balance. That's where my struggle comes in, right, is I work full time, trying to plan a wedding. I have a sweet dog that needs my attention. I am going to school; we're doing this podcast. There's a lot of things that are competing for my time. So, I would love to put an equal amount of energy into all of them, but sometimes it's just not possible. I do love school, but it's hard to manage the time.
Saklak [00:01:31] Agreed. And I think that's part of the challenge and journey though. We, like, wish it's so done and quick, and we want that, you know, diploma, we want to graduate. But it's the journey, right? That is such the yoga teacher in me, I'm just excited to hear about Lauren's experience with continuing education, because I think everyone has a different passion and curiosity, and how that's fed into her research and her continued education.
Masnari [00:01:55] Let's talk to Lauren. Lauren, we've never met.
Saklak [00:02:03] Laurin, meet Lauren.
Masnari [00:02:04] Meet Lauren. Laurin with an "i" meets Lauren with an "e."
Lauren Fogle [00:02:07] I've met so many Laurens in my life, so.
Masnari [00:02:10] Have you ever met a Laurin with an "i" though?
Fogle [00:02:12] I actually don't think so, there are some fun nicknames for us. Do you get like quite a few or?
Masnari [00:02:17] Yeah. What is yours?
Fogle [00:02:19] Oh gosh. Started when I was young. Lala. Lore, Lore-Lore, and then in college, my personal favorite Lo.
Masnari [00:02:27] Yeah, I'm Lo or Lowy.
Fogle [00:02:29] Oh, that's a new one. I like that.
Masnari [00:02:32] My fiancé has always called me Lo. But the other day, we're trying to buy a condo, and he was like, Lauren. And I was like, okay, don't yell at me.
Fogle [00:02:39] Whoa. Yeah, I know. It's, it's alarming. I wish I could just introduce myself as Lo, but I do see it as a nickname.
Masnari [00:02:47] Yeah, I agree. You got to earn it. Mm-hmm.
Fogle [00:02:48] It's a different mood and vibe.
Masnari [00:02:50] Right. So, because I have never met you, tell me a little bit about yourself. Where do you work?
Fogle [00:02:54] I'm in the Neuro ICU. I actually started last May, but I have big background in neurology in general, so I just added on the critical care ICU component.
Saklak [00:03:03] Can I butt in and give Alyssa's version of how I met Lauren?
Fogle [00:03:08] Yes, please.
Masnari [00:03:09] Oh, sure.
Saklak [00:03:10] So, we work with our nurse scholars here, which is essentially nurses who apply with evidence-based practice question or research that they're looking to investigate further. This is my first year of helping support nurse scholars as a nurse. And Lauren and I met through there, she submitted her project, and I'll let her speak to it. But what I loved about Lauren was her tenacity and fear and just, like, looking it in the face and saying, like, I'm going to go for this. I think a lot of nurses, when you hear research or like continuing education, you feel like you have to be a certain script. And Lauren's authenticity came through so much with her passions and her project. So, I just want to tee that up for those who are listening to talk about like, how did we get Lauren into this? Where is she coming from? What's her story? And I just wanted to be able to share her story with other nurses, because I think it's inspiring, and she's doing research on a super interesting topic. She just presented a poster at the nursing research symposium; you've made some huge strides this past year. So, Lauren, tell us what is the title of your project and what does it mean for you?
Fogle [00:04:11] Thank you so much for saying that. That is very kind. So, the title of my project is “Secondary Traumatic Stress in Nurses.” I'm trying to just ask other nurses and see what the prevalence of it is and if other nurses have experienced this or relate to it, just to open that, that conversation about it. I wanted to pursue this project because, when I was feeling burnt out after my second year and I thought it was just that, you know, OK, I need kind of more of a social life, spend more time with my friends, because I'm just feeling more tired from my shifts and feeling like that's just taking so much of my life and my time and, and energy. I thought that work-life balance was seeing my friends, doing fun stuff, like being outgoing and extroverted, and I started realizing that I wasn't fully present in those moments, I just didn't understand why. I'm supposed to be having fun, but why aren't I? Why am I having difficulty managing my emotions or why are my emotions popping up at such random times? I can rationalize and know, like, “Oh, that was a stressful shift, maybe I'll just sleep in an extra hour or go to bed early, or wind down a little bit more.” But that didn't really help as much because the things that I was seeing at work — I've seen some traumatic stuff. What I found in my research, traumatic stress shocks your nervous system, and then realizing that it's affecting you on such a deeper level, made more sense as to why I couldn't just shut it off. Why I had to really sit with it and feel it, realize how it was affecting my body, the tension. I wasn't having flashbacks or night sweats or like these extreme symptoms that are really talked about in PTSD which, that's very severe and very real. But there's also symptoms that aren't as obvious. This is probably a trauma response, such as people pleasing, oversharing, just disassociation, like that lack of feeling really present in a good moment. That's kind of the spark of my project is to help nurses really process trauma. My project is really just opening that question to allow nurses to see if they have also felt those things. While I can't help nurses really process trauma, I can help them maybe identify it just like I identified it within myself, and then if they're interested in healing and changing that, to have those resources. Because I think back to when I was a new grad, it's one thing to see people die, which is a part of our job, but oh gosh, I don't mean to get emotional, but some of it's really hard to see and it builds up and it's not always in peaceful ways. Especially being empathetic, you have that high level of care for people and it just, it just weighs on you and some of it's scary and, and abrupt and very fast paced. And nobody really talks about it, and you just go home in silence and it's just like, one, what did I just see? Two, now what? What am I supposed to do? Just figure it out. But then there's actually research to be like, you’re not crazy. You actually are taking on things that no human is really supposed to take on.
Saklak [00:07:45] Giving you virtual hugs.
Fogle [00:07:47] Thanks.
Saklak [00:07:48] I just want to say the bravery that you've done in going down this path and that you are the right person because no one better to do this work than someone who has lived experience to give a voice so that other people can see and hear and learn. And within this process, the first is just investigating: What is everyone else feeling?
Fogle [00:08:11] Pretty much the only advice you get sometimes is you got to turn off your shift, have a work-life balance, but it's just not that easy sometimes. And then I started just learning more about trauma and how it affects the body and the brain and just really relating to that of realizing, like, this is more than just stress. This is actually changing my nervous system. That just really lit up a lot of curiosity in me, and I just started researching, and I just found it really fascinating. It goes beyond bubble baths and candles and those kind of self-care things. We’ve got to face some fears here and some honesty and some realities that are often avoided.
Masnari [00:08:53] What have you learned about yourself since you've been doing this research?
Fogle [00:08:57] The program has just taught me a lot about organizing the research. There's so many studies of nurses talking about traumatic stress throughout the whole world. Doing this research also has really helped me not feel alone. It's very comforting to be, like, a lot of people see this in themselves and in the profession itself. At the symposium so many people walked past my poster and were just like, “Wow, such a great topic. I relate to this. This is very needed,” like, just very reassuring and that was really good support and fuel. At first you have a question, do other people feel this way too, or is it just me? Like, is this just my personal experience? You kind of go through the mind games and doubt. It is so real and global, and now that I have this self-awareness, I can do it so much better where I still get to be Lauren outside of work, not carrying all my experiences like on my shoulders.
Masnari [00:09:57] Lauren, the work that you're doing is so important and the things that you're saying are so relatable to me and, I'm sure, to Alyssa and I'm sure to a lot of the people that are listening. And I think that this is so powerful, and I'm feel very lucky that you had a great manager who pushed you towards this nurse scholar program because this really is, such incredible, incredible work.
Fogle [00:10:22] Thank you so much. Yeah. Vulnerability is not easy.
Masnari [00:10:25] Yeah. I mean, we're working with people in the most vulnerable times of their life, right? It's such this outdated concept that nurses can't cry or they can't get upset. And I love that we can say that, but you also have the research to back it.
Fogle [00:10:41] Oh yeah. Oh my gosh. That I could go on and on. How you feel internally there's so much truth in that, and I don't even mean that on like, "Oh, what are my emotions?" You do a lot of your emotional processing in the frontal lobe. Therapy is helpful of talking about emotions and decision making and problem solving. But trauma and nervous system regulation is actually on such a deeper level in your brain with, like, your amygdala in your hippocampus. When you're feeling triggered, that is your body communicating to you to tell you either something's not safe, something's just upsetting you from a deeper place. So now I've learned to sit with that and listen to it because it tells me things. That's why I'm passionate about the research, there's actual science with your brain and your nervous system communicating to you. And I've picked that up with my patients as well too. It started with observing them and then now observing myself.
Masnari [00:11:42] When we talk about, when we walk into a room and you can't pinpoint what is wrong with a patient, but your nurse senses kick in. There's actually science behind that. I don't know. That's so interesting to me.
Fogle [00:11:52] Always listen to that because every single time that I've walked into a patient's room for no objective reason, just a subjective intuition, it was needed. And I found something that brought me in there.
Saklak [00:12:07] You know, we came into this conversation in this episode about continued learning and it’s so evident that it starts with us and ourselves and our own self-awareness and emotional intelligence. Hence why it's part of that wheel of wellness, and the full circle moment is when we see how it translates to our patients. And so, doing the work that you're doing, following our passions and our curiosity helps feed us and ourselves and how we show up every day as nurses, as sisters, as brothers, neighbors, and allows us to feel content-ness and happiness in our own journeys.
Fogle [00:12:45] As nurses, we always are assessing people's baselines and comparing, kind of looking at ourselves to like, well, my baseline is peace, and I think everyone's baseline is peace. That's what we all want, right? We all want to, like, feel calm and it's not always that way. Being curious instead of avoiding it can ease some of that guilt or shame that we may feel in uncomfortable situations.
Masnari [00:13:12] I love this connection that we have somehow made between research and continuing education, self-care and finding yourself. I never thought that those three things would be connected, but I love that you just piece that all together.
Fogle [00:13:25] In nursing school, a lot of the research is like on vancomycin or antibiotics and pharmaceutical stuff. To find something to research that I'm actually using and practicing is really cool. And then I just simply want to share that.
Saklak [00:13:40] You've said this and, for those who are listening, you may think you have to be a certain way to do this research or like continuing education, but you don't. And there's been a huge support system around you. I have to give a shout out to Dr. Angela Mader, who is our PhD research consultant who helps the nurse scholars. And for those who are listening or are, like, what does this mean and how do I move through this? It's this tremendous support and effort to help answer some of these questions and curiosity that we have as nurses and as humans. I feel like I could just tie this whole show up in a package, put a, and put a bow on it, because it's been so amazing to hear you share your journey and your story. Thank you so much.
Fogle [00:14:20] Thank you so much.
Saklak [00:14:21] Absolutely.
Fogle [00:14:22] I appreciate you.
Masnari [00:14:23] Thanks, Lauren. Thanks for tuning in.
Saklak [00:14:31] Better RN, is brought to you by The Woman's Board of Northwestern Memorial Hospital.
Laurin Masnari [00:00:06] And I'm Laurin Masnari.
Saklak [00:00:08] On Better, RN, we get real about nursing.
Masnari [00:00:11] The good and the gritty.
Saklak [00:00:12] We talk to real healthcare experts.
Masnari [00:00:15] With the goal of becoming better.
Saklak [00:00:17] For our patients, our colleagues.
Masnari [00:00:18] Our family, our friends.
Saklak [00:00:20] Our partners and ourselves.
Masnari [00:00:25] Hi, Alyssa.
Saklak [00:00:26] Hi, Laurin.
Masnari [00:00:27] Happy podcast day. Very excited for this episode. We are interviewing someone that you know really well, whose name is also Lauren.
Saklak [00:00:33] Absolutely. Lauren Fogle is a nurse in the Neuro-spine Intensive Care Unit at Northwestern Memorial Hospital. She and I crossed paths because she is a nurse scholar doing a research project.
Masnari [00:00:45] Through Northwestern Medicine. Right?
Saklak [00:00:47] Absolutely.
Masnari [00:00:47] Learning never really stops. There's always an opportunity to learn more. So, I'm excited to, to hear from Lauren today.
Saklak [00:00:53] How's school been going for you?
Masnari [00:00:54] It's fine.
Saklak [00:00:55] You love it?
Masnari [00:00:56] How's school for you?
Saklak [00:00:57] Listen.
Masnari [00:00:57] You love it.
Saklak [00:00:58] I do. I'm in my master's for public health, and it has been fueling my nursing brain so much.
Masnari [00:01:03] Don't get me wrong. I love the learning piece, and I think a lot of what I'm learning right now in my master's program is super applicable to what I do in my day to day, but it's hard to balance. That's where my struggle comes in, right, is I work full time, trying to plan a wedding. I have a sweet dog that needs my attention. I am going to school; we're doing this podcast. There's a lot of things that are competing for my time. So, I would love to put an equal amount of energy into all of them, but sometimes it's just not possible. I do love school, but it's hard to manage the time.
Saklak [00:01:31] Agreed. And I think that's part of the challenge and journey though. We, like, wish it's so done and quick, and we want that, you know, diploma, we want to graduate. But it's the journey, right? That is such the yoga teacher in me, I'm just excited to hear about Lauren's experience with continuing education, because I think everyone has a different passion and curiosity, and how that's fed into her research and her continued education.
Masnari [00:01:55] Let's talk to Lauren. Lauren, we've never met.
Saklak [00:02:03] Laurin, meet Lauren.
Masnari [00:02:04] Meet Lauren. Laurin with an "i" meets Lauren with an "e."
Lauren Fogle [00:02:07] I've met so many Laurens in my life, so.
Masnari [00:02:10] Have you ever met a Laurin with an "i" though?
Fogle [00:02:12] I actually don't think so, there are some fun nicknames for us. Do you get like quite a few or?
Masnari [00:02:17] Yeah. What is yours?
Fogle [00:02:19] Oh gosh. Started when I was young. Lala. Lore, Lore-Lore, and then in college, my personal favorite Lo.
Masnari [00:02:27] Yeah, I'm Lo or Lowy.
Fogle [00:02:29] Oh, that's a new one. I like that.
Masnari [00:02:32] My fiancé has always called me Lo. But the other day, we're trying to buy a condo, and he was like, Lauren. And I was like, okay, don't yell at me.
Fogle [00:02:39] Whoa. Yeah, I know. It's, it's alarming. I wish I could just introduce myself as Lo, but I do see it as a nickname.
Masnari [00:02:47] Yeah, I agree. You got to earn it. Mm-hmm.
Fogle [00:02:48] It's a different mood and vibe.
Masnari [00:02:50] Right. So, because I have never met you, tell me a little bit about yourself. Where do you work?
Fogle [00:02:54] I'm in the Neuro ICU. I actually started last May, but I have big background in neurology in general, so I just added on the critical care ICU component.
Saklak [00:03:03] Can I butt in and give Alyssa's version of how I met Lauren?
Fogle [00:03:08] Yes, please.
Masnari [00:03:09] Oh, sure.
Saklak [00:03:10] So, we work with our nurse scholars here, which is essentially nurses who apply with evidence-based practice question or research that they're looking to investigate further. This is my first year of helping support nurse scholars as a nurse. And Lauren and I met through there, she submitted her project, and I'll let her speak to it. But what I loved about Lauren was her tenacity and fear and just, like, looking it in the face and saying, like, I'm going to go for this. I think a lot of nurses, when you hear research or like continuing education, you feel like you have to be a certain script. And Lauren's authenticity came through so much with her passions and her project. So, I just want to tee that up for those who are listening to talk about like, how did we get Lauren into this? Where is she coming from? What's her story? And I just wanted to be able to share her story with other nurses, because I think it's inspiring, and she's doing research on a super interesting topic. She just presented a poster at the nursing research symposium; you've made some huge strides this past year. So, Lauren, tell us what is the title of your project and what does it mean for you?
Fogle [00:04:11] Thank you so much for saying that. That is very kind. So, the title of my project is “Secondary Traumatic Stress in Nurses.” I'm trying to just ask other nurses and see what the prevalence of it is and if other nurses have experienced this or relate to it, just to open that, that conversation about it. I wanted to pursue this project because, when I was feeling burnt out after my second year and I thought it was just that, you know, OK, I need kind of more of a social life, spend more time with my friends, because I'm just feeling more tired from my shifts and feeling like that's just taking so much of my life and my time and, and energy. I thought that work-life balance was seeing my friends, doing fun stuff, like being outgoing and extroverted, and I started realizing that I wasn't fully present in those moments, I just didn't understand why. I'm supposed to be having fun, but why aren't I? Why am I having difficulty managing my emotions or why are my emotions popping up at such random times? I can rationalize and know, like, “Oh, that was a stressful shift, maybe I'll just sleep in an extra hour or go to bed early, or wind down a little bit more.” But that didn't really help as much because the things that I was seeing at work — I've seen some traumatic stuff. What I found in my research, traumatic stress shocks your nervous system, and then realizing that it's affecting you on such a deeper level, made more sense as to why I couldn't just shut it off. Why I had to really sit with it and feel it, realize how it was affecting my body, the tension. I wasn't having flashbacks or night sweats or like these extreme symptoms that are really talked about in PTSD which, that's very severe and very real. But there's also symptoms that aren't as obvious. This is probably a trauma response, such as people pleasing, oversharing, just disassociation, like that lack of feeling really present in a good moment. That's kind of the spark of my project is to help nurses really process trauma. My project is really just opening that question to allow nurses to see if they have also felt those things. While I can't help nurses really process trauma, I can help them maybe identify it just like I identified it within myself, and then if they're interested in healing and changing that, to have those resources. Because I think back to when I was a new grad, it's one thing to see people die, which is a part of our job, but oh gosh, I don't mean to get emotional, but some of it's really hard to see and it builds up and it's not always in peaceful ways. Especially being empathetic, you have that high level of care for people and it just, it just weighs on you and some of it's scary and, and abrupt and very fast paced. And nobody really talks about it, and you just go home in silence and it's just like, one, what did I just see? Two, now what? What am I supposed to do? Just figure it out. But then there's actually research to be like, you’re not crazy. You actually are taking on things that no human is really supposed to take on.
Saklak [00:07:45] Giving you virtual hugs.
Fogle [00:07:47] Thanks.
Saklak [00:07:48] I just want to say the bravery that you've done in going down this path and that you are the right person because no one better to do this work than someone who has lived experience to give a voice so that other people can see and hear and learn. And within this process, the first is just investigating: What is everyone else feeling?
Fogle [00:08:11] Pretty much the only advice you get sometimes is you got to turn off your shift, have a work-life balance, but it's just not that easy sometimes. And then I started just learning more about trauma and how it affects the body and the brain and just really relating to that of realizing, like, this is more than just stress. This is actually changing my nervous system. That just really lit up a lot of curiosity in me, and I just started researching, and I just found it really fascinating. It goes beyond bubble baths and candles and those kind of self-care things. We’ve got to face some fears here and some honesty and some realities that are often avoided.
Masnari [00:08:53] What have you learned about yourself since you've been doing this research?
Fogle [00:08:57] The program has just taught me a lot about organizing the research. There's so many studies of nurses talking about traumatic stress throughout the whole world. Doing this research also has really helped me not feel alone. It's very comforting to be, like, a lot of people see this in themselves and in the profession itself. At the symposium so many people walked past my poster and were just like, “Wow, such a great topic. I relate to this. This is very needed,” like, just very reassuring and that was really good support and fuel. At first you have a question, do other people feel this way too, or is it just me? Like, is this just my personal experience? You kind of go through the mind games and doubt. It is so real and global, and now that I have this self-awareness, I can do it so much better where I still get to be Lauren outside of work, not carrying all my experiences like on my shoulders.
Masnari [00:09:57] Lauren, the work that you're doing is so important and the things that you're saying are so relatable to me and, I'm sure, to Alyssa and I'm sure to a lot of the people that are listening. And I think that this is so powerful, and I'm feel very lucky that you had a great manager who pushed you towards this nurse scholar program because this really is, such incredible, incredible work.
Fogle [00:10:22] Thank you so much. Yeah. Vulnerability is not easy.
Masnari [00:10:25] Yeah. I mean, we're working with people in the most vulnerable times of their life, right? It's such this outdated concept that nurses can't cry or they can't get upset. And I love that we can say that, but you also have the research to back it.
Fogle [00:10:41] Oh yeah. Oh my gosh. That I could go on and on. How you feel internally there's so much truth in that, and I don't even mean that on like, "Oh, what are my emotions?" You do a lot of your emotional processing in the frontal lobe. Therapy is helpful of talking about emotions and decision making and problem solving. But trauma and nervous system regulation is actually on such a deeper level in your brain with, like, your amygdala in your hippocampus. When you're feeling triggered, that is your body communicating to you to tell you either something's not safe, something's just upsetting you from a deeper place. So now I've learned to sit with that and listen to it because it tells me things. That's why I'm passionate about the research, there's actual science with your brain and your nervous system communicating to you. And I've picked that up with my patients as well too. It started with observing them and then now observing myself.
Masnari [00:11:42] When we talk about, when we walk into a room and you can't pinpoint what is wrong with a patient, but your nurse senses kick in. There's actually science behind that. I don't know. That's so interesting to me.
Fogle [00:11:52] Always listen to that because every single time that I've walked into a patient's room for no objective reason, just a subjective intuition, it was needed. And I found something that brought me in there.
Saklak [00:12:07] You know, we came into this conversation in this episode about continued learning and it’s so evident that it starts with us and ourselves and our own self-awareness and emotional intelligence. Hence why it's part of that wheel of wellness, and the full circle moment is when we see how it translates to our patients. And so, doing the work that you're doing, following our passions and our curiosity helps feed us and ourselves and how we show up every day as nurses, as sisters, as brothers, neighbors, and allows us to feel content-ness and happiness in our own journeys.
Fogle [00:12:45] As nurses, we always are assessing people's baselines and comparing, kind of looking at ourselves to like, well, my baseline is peace, and I think everyone's baseline is peace. That's what we all want, right? We all want to, like, feel calm and it's not always that way. Being curious instead of avoiding it can ease some of that guilt or shame that we may feel in uncomfortable situations.
Masnari [00:13:12] I love this connection that we have somehow made between research and continuing education, self-care and finding yourself. I never thought that those three things would be connected, but I love that you just piece that all together.
Fogle [00:13:25] In nursing school, a lot of the research is like on vancomycin or antibiotics and pharmaceutical stuff. To find something to research that I'm actually using and practicing is really cool. And then I just simply want to share that.
Saklak [00:13:40] You've said this and, for those who are listening, you may think you have to be a certain way to do this research or like continuing education, but you don't. And there's been a huge support system around you. I have to give a shout out to Dr. Angela Mader, who is our PhD research consultant who helps the nurse scholars. And for those who are listening or are, like, what does this mean and how do I move through this? It's this tremendous support and effort to help answer some of these questions and curiosity that we have as nurses and as humans. I feel like I could just tie this whole show up in a package, put a, and put a bow on it, because it's been so amazing to hear you share your journey and your story. Thank you so much.
Fogle [00:14:20] Thank you so much.
Saklak [00:14:21] Absolutely.
Fogle [00:14:22] I appreciate you.
Masnari [00:14:23] Thanks, Lauren. Thanks for tuning in.
Saklak [00:14:31] Better RN, is brought to you by The Woman's Board of Northwestern Memorial Hospital.